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Posted by blacklillyrose
on 22-Jan-2009 09:58
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Cleric preaches beating women and forcing sex
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An Islamic cleric from Melbourne has told followers it is permitted to force their wives to have sex with them and to hit them.
The lecture, titled "The Keys to a Successful Marriage" was delivered a few years ago but had recently been placed on the internet.
Samir Abu Hamza, who runs the Islamic Information and Services Network of Australasia in Coburg, said Islamic law permitted men to hit their disobedient wives as a last resort.
"You'll beat them... but this is the last resort after you have advised them for a long, long time, then you smack them, you beat them."
"You are not allowed to bruise them, you are not allowed to make them bleed."
Hamza told followers women must respond to their husbands whenever they ask for it.
"Even if her husband was to ask her for a sexual relationship and she is preparing the bread on the stove she must leave it and come and respond to her husband," he said.
He appeared to not understand what was wrong with a husband forcing himself onto his wife.
"Amazing, how can a person rape his wife?"
"In this country if the husband wants to sleep with his wife and she does not want to... it is known to be as rape."
Hamza advised the congregation not to become too physical with the beatings.
"This is just to shape them up, shape up woman."
Reports from News Limited said Hamza yesterday stood by his comments and blamed the controversy on a hidden Zionist agenda run by the media.
He reiterated his belief that a wife was allowed to be hit on the hand or leg.
"Of course, not on the head."
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Replied by
blacklillyrose
on
22-Jan-2009 10:02
(Ref
1588476)
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I betcha he doesnt have an Aussie girl for a wife.. i think i could put a few bruise in places he wouldnt like..
And of course i could give him a response for the requset for sex...he probably wouldnt like that either..
Guys like this should be sent back to what ever village he escaped from in the first place..
This is Australia ....not Iraq and certainly not a place to condone spousal rape!!!!
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Replied by
jimlsr
on
22-Jan-2009 10:05
(Ref
1588490)
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sounds like the same guy that came to perth and gave a lecture
ship them back
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Replied by
shanehasenteredthebuilding
on
22-Jan-2009 10:14
(Ref
1588507)
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Ok, sounds kool to me.
No, no, no , just kidding.
Everyone who is all for the muso's know this is how they operate but still think it's ok to live and let live.
Freedom of religion, just a shame they don't allow freedom for their women.
Yeh yeh I know.
Not all are like that.
Most are just fine upstanding Aussies.
Bull. The whole religion is real big on the submission of women. All is fine for the guys in this religion. Archaic ideas and belongs in the dark ages.
But I don't sit up nights thinking about it.
Their business until they upset my country too much. Then it will be my business.
Not at all racist but this religion as a whole is just dead set wrong. Like most of the others as well I guess.
Speaking for myself tho, submissive women can be pretty boring. A bit of spirit at least is needed for the relationship to be fun. And to force yourself on a woman that doesn't want you would be the ultimate in boredom.
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Replied by
jamesthehunter
on
22-Jan-2009 10:28
(Ref
1588534)
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All i see is this!
Abuse, Rape, Battery & More Rape & Abuse
This is so Bull
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Replied by
lizziest
on
22-Jan-2009 10:39
(Ref
1588557)
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me submissive.......nuh never happen.....lol
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Replied by
dutchmiranda
on
22-Jan-2009 11:05
(Ref
1588598)
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They are not all like that
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Replied by
lavaliere
on
22-Jan-2009 11:06
(Ref
1588600)
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All I can say is if it were my husband he'd want to sleep with one eye open..lol..
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Replied by
blacklillyrose
on
22-Jan-2009 11:14
(Ref
1588609)
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Three men were sitting together bragging about how they had given their new wives duties.
Terry had married a woman from America, and bragged that he had told his wife she needed to do all the dishes and housework.He said that it took a couple of days but on the third day he came home to a clean house and all the dishes were washed and put away.
Jimmy had married a woman from England. He bragged that he had given his wife orders that she was to do all the cleaning, dishes, and the cooking. He told them that the first day he didn't see any results, but the next day it was better. By the third day, his house was clean, the dishes were done, and he had a huge dinner on the table.
The third man had married an Australian girl. He boasted that he told her that her duties were to keep the house cleaned, dishes washed, laundry and ironing twice a week, lawns mowed, windows cleaned and hot meals on the table for every meal. He said the first day he didn't see anything, the second day he didn't see anything, but by the third day most of the swelling had gone down and he could see a little out of his left eye, just enough to fix himself a bite to eat, load the dishwasher, and call a handyman.
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Replied by
bags-the-Alphena
on
22-Jan-2009 11:29
(Ref
1588627)
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Oh Now come on...It is not just this "religion" that has this belief...I know of a few men from diff ethnic backgrounds and religions that share the same mind set...My ex is one of them....Is a Pom( A so called good Catholic)...My Father was another one black Irish man...Church of England....Am sure there are many more examples out there.
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Replied by
toshie5
on
22-Jan-2009 11:32
(Ref
1588633)
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I heard the head of the Islamic Council of Victoria on the radio today, and he is horrified at this .
This Council is in the middle of organising workshops and other stuff for all religious clerics.
There are extremist whackjobs in any religion, and in no religion at all.
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Replied by
Petranne
on
22-Jan-2009 11:49
(Ref
1588656)
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This religion also punishes it children for stealing etc. I have an email and the little boy stole some bread. He has his arm placed on the ground with little padding and a car will crush his arm rending the limb useless. Islam to me at present doesn't promote love and peace. In the bible it condones men who are physically, sexually abusing wives. Yet this so called religion thinks it is alright to rape, beat women. If I was married to a man who treated me like that. Either he goes or I'm out of here real fast.
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Replied by
blacklillyrose
on
22-Jan-2009 11:55
(Ref
1588667)
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Prime Minister Kevin Rudd has called upon a Muslim cleric who said it was ok to rape and hit your wife to publicly apologise.
It has been reported that cleric Samir Abu Hamza told his followers in Melbourne it is a man's right to demand sex and beat his wife.
Mr Rudd said his remarks have no place in modern Australia.
"I would call upon this Islamic cleric to publicly apologise and repudiate his remarks," he said.
"Under no circumstances is sexual violence permissible or acceptable in Australia."
Mr Rudd says Australians will not tolerate remarks which promote violence against women.
"Under no circumstances are other forms of violence, physical violence towards women, acceptable in Australia, nor are they acceptable in my view to mainstream Muslim teachings," he said.
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Replied by
bags-the-Alphena
on
22-Jan-2009 12:19
(Ref
1588704)
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grahamp1275 on 22-Jan-2009 11:49 (Ref 1588656) |
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This religion also punishes it children for stealing etc. I have an email and the little boy stole some bread. He has his arm placed on the ground with little padding and a car will crush his arm rending the limb useless. |
The above email you got it false...Google it. Was even on the news that it was false, it was something like a trick being performed, The child had been training for....snopes probably have something about it too.
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Replied by
blacklillyrose
on
22-Jan-2009 12:25
(Ref
1588725)
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Yeah for stealing they cut your hand off..dont worry so much about crushing it..
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Replied by
shahlame
on
22-Jan-2009 12:39
(Ref
1588753)
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"Reports from News Limited said Hamza yesterday stood by his comments and blamed the controversy on a hidden Zionist agenda run by the media."
No, it couldn't be anything he did wrong, could it - it has to be a plot against him.
Way to go Mr. Rudd.
Way to go Blacklilyrose, had a good laugh at your joke.
Way to go is out Mr. Hamsa, out of Australia, out of our lives.
Australia will never condone these kinds of actions - if you want to live here, take our lifestyle and standards and leave yours at the door on the way in. We will always welcome people who appreciate our way of life and freedom.
Can you imagine how his wife & children feel, living in a society which abhors this kind of behaviour, yet are forced to live under those conditions - it is much more cruel than if they lived in a country which embraced islamic law for everyone.
Okay, I'm getting of my soapbox now.
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Replied by
lil
on
22-Jan-2009 12:44
(Ref
1588763)
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Whats with these muslims!!
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Replied by
earthsemporium
on
22-Jan-2009 13:18
(Ref
1588849)
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It is not WHAT IS WITH THESE MUSLIMS - it is what is with this particular breed of fanatic - brain washing is what is wrong since the day they were born, to raise children under these edicts is child abuse as far as I am concerned - but yes, it doesn't only happen amongst Muslims - they are just really good at publicly boasting about it.
My father who all his life boasted how he never has laid a hand on me, beat my leg until it was black and purple when I was ten because I said I liked a Chinese story by Pearl S Buck - the reasoning, I couldn't like chinese people, I didn't know what I was talking about - and my mother who would be green purple and yellow so often, well she just walked into cupboard doors or fell off chairs, didn't she?
And I know some real good Christian men who I would like to castrate with great gusto.
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Replied by
shahlame
on
22-Jan-2009 13:25
(Ref
1588862)
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Can I help, earth?
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Replied by
earthsemporium
on
22-Jan-2009 13:28
(Ref
1588865)
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Anytime
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Replied by
sueq
on
22-Jan-2009 14:40
(Ref
1589021)
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Some men do think it ok to do this sort of tripe, but they don't do it with the backing of their religion or the laws of the country and if caught are punished.
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. 
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Replied by
dazzman79
on
22-Jan-2009 15:16
(Ref
1589072)
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i know not all muslims are like this, i know a couple of muslims and they would be the nicest couple you could ever meet, its the extremists who are the problem, extremists of any religion are a problem,
but i cant get my head around the mindset of these people
also another one i have heard is a woman has to walk behind the husband, if she walks in front of him, its disrespectful and he has the right to beat her down.
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Replied by
themightybahamut
on
22-Jan-2009 16:12
(Ref
1589133)
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i honestly cant understand how people can have such attitudes about muslims and Islaam.
in so many threads it turns into a slinging contest over muslims, and they all get tarred with the same brush for the stupidity/fanaticism of a handful
i could make the statement that all catholics abuse little boys because a few priests have done it.or all aboriginals sniff petrol because a few have done it or all indonesians bomb hotels etc etc etc
yes there are some with opinions that shock us (like Hamza) but we are lucky enough to have been raised in a country with amazing civil rights. in some countries, their laws are thousands of years old, and everyone has these beleifs drummed into them from birth.
as disgusting as stoning women, multiple wives, female castration, sex as a right not privelege is to us in our liberated lifestyle, some people beleive in it because their society has taught them no different.
yes, this Hamza is completely wrong in his statements in australia. we do not accept this behaviour at all. but tell that to the thousands of aussie guys beating their wives daily. i for one lived 10 years of beatings from a white australian whose family dates back to settlement. i also know some muslims whose husbands would never lift a finger against their wives, and cherish them.
i get so angry at comments like "those people" or "send them all back" it does nothing to close the gap of ignorance between 2 very different cultures, and only fuels the fear and mistrust on both sides.
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Replied by
shahlame
on
22-Jan-2009 17:06
(Ref
1589241)
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You are quite right mighty - we generalise too quickly.
I don't know how you stood 10 years of beatings, but I admire your courage and perseverence.
I lasted for only several beatings over 7 months from a white, true blue Aussie. Any longer and I would have killed him if he didn't kill me.
I'll always respect an open mind more than an open hand....
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Replied by
AUSSIEDVD
on
22-Jan-2009 18:06
(Ref
1589344)
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We don't need people like this in our Country !
I can not understand people like this,
i do not understand how a human being can be cruel to another human being,
I do not understand War, and why people must go out and kill each other ,
i do not understand any form of hatred towards any fellow human being.
i have come to the conclusion the World is in one big bloody mess.
God help us all...
regards
Bernard
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Replied by
kaotikjezta
on
22-Jan-2009 22:58
(Ref
1589753)
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OMG, I agree with Earth for once. It is ingrained into many doctrines, like the bible telling to punish children with the rod. Things that happen in non-Muslim society don't make media headlines though. I do remember a judge years ago throwing a womans case out of court after her husband raped her with the logic that a husband can't rape his wife because she is not supossed to say no in the first place. That was a white Australian judge passing judgement on a white woman and white man. You no Mohammed always used the context of what was happening at the time, he would say you can do this but it is better to forgive as God is Merciful. He was trying to educate people who had the ways of doing things ingrained into them. That was one reason after his first wifes death he had so many wives. He frequently saved slave girls and daughters who were being abused and in those days the only way to save them was to talke them as wives or slaves of your own. Taking them as wives did not necessarily mean consumating the marriage it just meant no other man could touch them or abuse them. The misinterpretation of his words has happened mainly due to the fact that the Saudis claim to have the supreme authourity in the publication of the Qu'ran.
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Replied by
toshie5
on
22-Jan-2009 23:34
(Ref
1589781)
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Kaotik, LOL - You are agreeing with Earth because she is not generalising or racial stereotyping - which is great (and unusual). I thought it was nice to see her comments as well.
We can all learn things from many of these topics, I think.
My ex was belted by his Christian pastor father, and I mean belted with a belt.
What is scarey about the posters on this thread, is how many people have been exposed to family violence in some way.
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Replied by
ShaDowLurKeR
on
23-Jan-2009 08:03
(Ref
1589911)
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It is ingrained into many doctrines, like the bible telling to punish children with the rod.
A rod can be used to direct children in the right way and not neccessarily to hit with. The Bible also says he who spares the rod hates his child, in other words, they need a good smack every now and again, all you mothers out there I am sure you will agree! It doesn't mean a thrashing so as to leave marks.
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Replied by
earthsemporium
on
23-Jan-2009 08:33
(Ref
1589952)
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I also believe the adage from the bible "Spare the rod and Spoil the Child" is misinterpreted. I believe it means if you don't strongly discipline a child when it is young, you suffer the consequences as the child gets older,you end up with a child who does not understand social and moral thinking and requirements in society, who becomes egotistical and self serving.
My children got a whack across the bum now and then, and it never hurt them, and I never hurt them. My daughter tells me, as much as she hated my disciplines and how I stuck to right is right and wrong is wrong, and this is how you behave at home andj in society - in later life when she made wrong turns in her life, it was those discipilines, that helped her keep her head above water, and constantly reminded her that she was doing wrong - the disciplines you raise a child with, if good disciplines, become a mental guide and a life line in future years, and a strength to help them in society as they grow into adulthood.
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Replied by
kaotikjezta
on
23-Jan-2009 10:08
(Ref
1590101)
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I wasn't saying that is what the bible meant, I was saying that it is something that has and is misinterpreted to the detriment of children. You may not thrash or beat your children but there is no denying that there are people that call themselves Christians that do. As for having to smack children or they don't grow up right, I disagree. Both my children have grown to be well adjusted and respectful and I never hit them.
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Replied by
toshie5
on
23-Jan-2009 10:28
(Ref
1590125)
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I second that, kaotik.
I have never smacked my children, not even a light tap on the bum. My two girls have grown up, or are growing up still, absolutely respectful, law-abiding, responsible people. They go to university/high school, they both have jobs - so far they have never made bad decisions like getting pregnant or arrested or anything like that. They have never even gotten into minor trouble at school. My neighbourhood knows my girls as polite, well-spoken, friendly and happy teenagers who are outgoing and responsible. They are both revered as baby-sitters in our area.
Even my special-needs son, who is as difficult as can be, is polite, well-mannered, honest and hard-working, and goes to TAFE.
Furthermore, I don't really understand why people think it is ok to give a little smack to your children, and then raise their hands in horror when this cleric says you should, as a last resort, give your wife a little smack but not hurt them. For clarification, I'm certainly not agreeing with what this cleric is saying!!! Not at all, not one little bit.
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Replied by
bellahrose
on
23-Jan-2009 10:43
(Ref
1590145)
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Does that mean the wife also has a right to belt her husband if he dont "give it up?"
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Replied by
earthsemporium
on
23-Jan-2009 10:57
(Ref
1590164)
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I knew a young navy wife who killed her husband with a carving knife. She was sexually and physically abused by this drunken sot for years - the navy knew about it, shehad begged for help and counselling. We all knew about it, but in those days no one would act.
One night he came home drunk to do his usual routine - bash and rape her and she stabbed him - she went to prison - that she had been abused since she was sixteen by this man and eveyone knew, the Chaplains, the Officer on the ship that looked after family liaisons, but no the judge said she was a terrible woman and jailed her, and when she finally got out, the Navy said you can't have the widows pension you killed one of our blokes, doesn't matter than he drove you to insanity and we all knew about it - that doesn't count one iota.
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Replied by
dutch-hippy
on
23-Jan-2009 12:56
(Ref
1590470)
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Theo van Gogh made a film about Moslims abusing their women, it is called"Submission" A young Muslim boy killed him for that, the boy was born and educated in Holland, go and figure, you never get those ideas out of their head.
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Replied by
earthsemporium
on
23-Jan-2009 13:01
(Ref
1590487)
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I tried to explain how people are leaving Amsterdam because of the influx of these people but no one here seemed to understand how bad it is out there, everywhere they settle. I read in the New York Times a very large article on it.
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Replied by
dutch-hippy
on
23-Jan-2009 14:03
(Ref
1590625)
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It is worse in Rotterdam where 50% of the population is foreign. A politician, Geert Wilders wants to close the borders as Holland is full. We left in 1956 when they had 11 million and so had Australia. Now there are 16 million over there and 1.2 million are Muslims!
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Replied by
cintra
on
23-Jan-2009 21:55
(Ref
1591260)
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So they reakon even if a woman is cooking bread on a stove and he wants "relations" she is to go with him, then what, does she get beaten when the bread is overdone and no longer edible? Oh hang on, I have the wrong type of man who goes the whole kit and kaboodle in regards to "relations", not just a one minute wonder!!!
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